Small Houses

Marganne Meyer's 2008 posts to Cohousing-L had numerous links to resources
related to small houses.  This file attempts to collect that information on
one page. Note that missing are other peoples the 40 replies to these messages
tho they may be quoted in one of Margane's replies.

About this file

Below are 3 sections
URL's in Margane's messages:
Links to Margane's 2008 posts in archives:
Margane's 2008 posts from archives:  (collected posts)

*** URL's in Margane's messages:
Note the first occurance of each of these URL's is tagged "*U" in the collected posts below to facilitate
seeing what she said about the site.

http://www.midtowntoronto.com/2007/10/15/torontos-smallest-house-for-sale/ (not responding 5/10/09)
http://members.tripod.com/~list2sell/1smal.htm
http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/houses.htm
http://www.firstdaycottage.com/Main.html
http://www.architecturalhouseplans.com/
http://www.katrinacottages.com/plans/types.html
http://www.resourcesforlife.com/docs/item516
http://cohousingsmallhomes.blogspot.com/
http://www.resourcesforlife.com/small-house-society
http://homebuying.about.com/od/modularhomes/Modular_and_Manufactured_Homes.htm
http://www.cnu.org/
http://www.newurbannews.com/AboutNewUrbanism.html
http://groups.google.com/group/low-cost-community-housing
http://www.cohousing.org/node/761
http://www.cohousing.org/node/1198
http://www.idahostatesman.com/126/story/415966.html
http://www.cohousing.org/cm/article/affordable_2
http://www.resourcesforlife.com/groups/smallhousesociety/resources.htm
http://www.resourcesforlife.com/docs/item522

*** Links to Margane's 2008 posts in archives:  (collected posts below)
Truly affordable cohousing
Re: Truly affordable cohousing
Re: Truly affordable cohousing
Re: Truly affordable cohousing
Re: Truly affordable cohousing
Affordable examples
Modular/Prefab homes
Re: Truly affordable cohousing
Re: Truly affordable cohousing
Re: Truly affordable cohousing
Re: Elevators and exclusions
Re: Truly affordable cohousing
Re: Truly affordable cohousing
Thanks for low cost discussion
Small House Life
Re: Terminology Suggestion
Re: Low cost housing
Re: Low cost housing
Variations on low cost housing
Re: Variations on low cost housing
Re: Low cost housing
Re: low cost housing
Re: Low cost housing
Re: Low cost housing
Re: Low cost housing
How much living space to you need?
Urban vs Rural low cost living
Re: Urban vs Rural low cost living
Re: Variations on low cost housing
Transition Town Movement
Re: Variations on low cost housing
Re: Variations on low cost housing
finding community
Zillions of cohousing communities
Re: Variations on low cost housing
New low cost housing group formed
Re: New low cost housing group formed
New group on low cost community
Share rental in Oregon, Washington?
Newspaper supports building smaller homes
Re: affordable, rental cohousing! (No. Calif.)
Re: Any Small Places for Rent
Re: Any Small Places for Rent
Re: affordable, rental cohousing! (No. Calif.)
Mixed-income Cohousing
Re: affordable, rental cohousing! (No. Calif.)
Re: Mixed-income Cohousing
*** Margane's 2008 posts from archives: (collected posts) Note that the seach forms here do not work - Use the forms in the regular Cohousing-L archives Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: affordable, rental cohousing! (No. Calif.)
Re: affordable, rental cohousing! (No. Calif.)
From: Marganne Meyer (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:33:19 -0700 (PDT)
In response to Ann Zebaldo's post:

Personally, I think it's important to combine people of many income levels and circumstances. I have no evidence of this working. Being someone who lives on the 'margin', it would be a struggle for me to feel comfortable with only a few community members funding part of a project integral to the entire community. Perhaps something totally based on donations would feel more comfortable ... but that's just me.

Please keep in mind that someone choosing to live in an 800-square-foot home (or smaller) is not an indication of that person's income. This misconception may be part of what makes some potential cohousing members balk at having homes of different monetary values in one project.

Many of the smaller homes are highly energy efficient. It's also what people are looking for who are part of the 'living simple' movement. A byproduct are more affordable homes.

Perhaps some of you here who live 'in community' currently could talk about how you would feel if not everyone in your project had the same buy-in price. How would finances be handled equitably?

Try to imagine several of these 'tiny' homes located in the same community that has the more common, shared-wall, multi-floor cohousing buildings. There are links to a few samples below. Note that these aren't all 400-square-foot tiny tumbleweed homes on wheels, but they all go for well under $50,000.

http://tortoiseshellhome.com/Pricing.html
http://www.tinyhousedesign.com/2008/08/12/cherokee-cabin-company-tiny-house-plans/
http://www.tinyhousedesign.com/2008/07/25/ross-chapin-architects-goodfit-house-plans/
http://www.sheldondesigns.com/cabins/CohuttaC980.htm

TinyHouseDesign.com is the web site of Michael Jantzen who is a member of the Low Cost Community Housing (LCCH) mailing list. His web site has links to many excellent examples of smaller, energy efficient homes. The owner of Tortoise Shell Home also is a list member.

Making an initial investment to buy a large parcel of land and to start construction is a problem for people who live on less than $30,000 a year, even though they can afford to build one of the many tiny homes available on the market.

Part of the tiny home concept is based on not including some of the usual functions a 'normal' house might contain. These include a lot of what cohousing projects share via the common house, a shop with tools, or a garden.

Can any of you envision your own community including several 800-square-foot homes?

Cheers!
Marganne

The cohousing, small house movement
http://cohousingsmallhomes.blogspot.com/

Low Cost Community Housing
http://groups.google.com/group/low-cost-community-housing


At 11:28 AM -0300 8/14/08, Ann Zabaldo wrote:
My question regards the efficacy of putting all low income people into one project cohousing or not.

When I was in Denmark in '99 we visited a cohousing community that was composed of people pretty much on the "margin." The thing the people talked most about was the lack of funds to do any project that moved their community forward from its very basic foundations.

At Takoma Village we often have people of more means stepping forward w/ gifts of money or other in kind donations to the community that raise the standard of living for everyone.

It seems to me that mixing incomes has more potential for the community overall -- and maybe the larger community as well. An example: in Montgomery County, Maryland, there are no "slums" because low and moderate income housing is mixed throughout the county in all developments of 20 units or more. Now ... say what you want about the program -- it's flawed, it's difficult from a developer's point of view, it's a bear to administer, etc. BUT the county is free of slums and low income folks rub elbows w/ people of higher means. That can't be bad!


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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Truly affordable cohousing
Truly affordable cohousing
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 16:32:48 -0700 (PDT)
Note: I apologize in advance if some of my post offends anyone. I feel strongly about this subject and often go overboard when discussing it.
---
I've been away from the list for a while (stopped keeping up with reading). Over the years I've subscribed to this list, I've become disillusioned many times about accessibility to cohousing both physically and fiscally (couldn't pass that one up).

People continue to think a $250,000 home (plus your share of the common house and membership) is affordable. Having been able bodied for most of my life, I am very sensitive to the subtly of eliminating possibilities for those of us with physical and/or mental disabilities living on fixed incomes.

You are not uncaring people! There is much more expression of care for other people and the environment here than in many other groups. I suspect it's lack of direct experience. Prior to my illness, I was empathetic about affordable housing. My perspective changed when I had to stop working in my mid-40s.

There are probably many, many more people like me who would like to live in a community environment of some sort, but lack the funds or capacity needed to get through the current admission gates of cohousing. Affordable cohousing could provide a way for people to pool their funds together with others to recreate homes they CAN afford (take my mortgage please!).

I'm looking for help from those of you who are very creative and can think outside the affordability box. The last time I raised this question, several people asked that the discussion remain on this list. In glancing over some of the posts made in the prior 6 months, I saw one or two posts about affordability, but very little discussions followed.

I have written to and called several cohousing projects in formation to get a feel for their affordability threshold. It's not an easy figure to find. A member of one of those projects asked me what I considered affordable. I said $150,000. He laughed and suggested I find a shipping crate to live in. (See links at end of this post.)

True affordability can be a hard sell to folks who can afford to live in current cohousing. Most folks never would consider living in a shipping crate or something similar (modular homes, yurts). Profitability for architects and developers also might be an issue. Or perhaps there are examples I've missed? Converted trailer parks? Manufactured housing?

Can some of you who are experienced in forming cohousing projects help here? Can cohousing be more accessible to 'the rest' of us? (Or maybe prove why it can't be done.)

If you'd like to learn more about the Small House Movement, check the links from my blog, Cohousing, Small House Movement. There are many more options than container housing.

Cheers!
Marganne
Cohousing, Small House Movement
http://cohousingsmallhomes.blogspot.com/

Shipping container living
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/affordablehousing/archives/136629.asp
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/04/shipping-container-house-ross-stevens.php
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/01/shipping_contai.php

Generally, architects offer container homes for anywhere from $125 to $150 per sq. ft. There are container home kits from 1,000 to 3,000 square feet. ... Adam Kalkin has sold a dozen of his ... Quik Houses, each based on five shipping containers. These are two-story, 2,000-square-foot homes with skylights and enormous glass windows, equipped with three bedrooms and two baths. The price, which ranges from $76,000 for the basic kit to $160,000 (with all the bells and whistles like a stainless-steel kitchen and mahogany doors), is under $100 per square foot, not including land or foundation. ... Used containers can be purchased for $1,500 to $2,500 ... a customized container with lighting, heating, insulation, and air conditioning, it could cost $7-13,000.

Larger complexes of many shipping container units address the difficulty in providing high-density prefab housing. Like Spacebox (which reader Rob Kelley pointed out would be greener if made with containers), they can operate on a system of plug-and-play pods, with utilities in a central core rather than the living units themselves.

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Variations on low cost housing
Variations on low cost housing
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 15:21:41 -0700 (PDT)
Here's more examples of people who aren't poor choosing to live lightly or small. It's still on the NYTimes most read list:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/17/us/17texas.html?ei=5087&em=&en=d30b022f7a9633af&ex=1211256000&pagewanted=print

May 17, 2008
Chasing Utopia, Family Imagines No Possessions
By RALPH BLUMENTHAL and RACHEL MOSTELLER

AUSTIN, Tex. - Like many other young couples, Aimee and Jeff Harris spent the first years of their marriage eagerly accumulating stuff: cars, furniture, clothes, appliances and, after a son and a daughter came along, toys, toys, toys.

Now they are trying to get rid of it all, down to their fancy wedding bands. Chasing a utopian vision of a self-sustaining life on the land as partisans of a movement some call voluntary simplicity, they are donating virtually all their possessions to charity and hitting the road at the end of May.

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Small House Life
Small House Life
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 11:41:48 -0700 (PDT)
Some of you expressed an interest in Greg's very small residence, the Mobile Hermitage:

The Small House Society Conference 2008 http://www.resourcesforlife.com/docs/item662 will take place July 12 and 13 at the Iowa City Public Library. It is part of an overall Resources for Life Conference.

Don't miss this chance to take a first-hand look at Gregory Paul Johnson's 140-square-foot residence, the Mobile Hermitage, http://www.resourcesforlife.com/mobile-hermitage on July 11.

Greg has published a new book entitled "Put Your Life on a Diet"
http://www.resourcesforlife.com/put-your-life-on-a-diet.
The subtitle is "Lessons Learned Living in 140 Square Feet".
The book focuses on living a simpler life, leaving behind a smaller environmental footprint, and living a healthier life for you and the planet.
--
Cheers!
Marganne
http://cohousingsmallhomes.blogspot.com/
  • (no other messages in thread)

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: New low cost housing group formed
Re: New low cost housing group formed
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 19:34:43 -0700 (PDT)
I don't know the answer to that question. What I can do is invite you directly. If you can subscribe without a Google account, then you should be able to respond.

Let me know off list if you have a particular problem with not wanting a Google account. I might have a solution for that problem, whatever it is.

Cheers!
Marganne

At 5:53 PM -0700 5/28/08, Judith Rosen wrote:
How can I join your grp without creating a google acct?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marganne" <marganne [at] macnexus.org>
To: "Small House Society" <smallhousesocietyonline [at] yahoogroups.com>;
"Cohousing-L" <cohousing-l [at] cohousing.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 4:25 PM
Subject: [C-L]_ New low cost housing group formed



 Join the Low Cost Community Housing group at Google.

 Current web address:
 http://groups.google.com/group/low-cost-community-housing

 Current email address:
 low-cost-community-housing [at] googlegroups.com

 A place for people who are interested in creating housing communities
 that don't break your bank! Spawned from mailing lists for cohousing
 and the Small House Society.


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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Truly affordable cohousing
Re: Truly affordable cohousing
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 14:27:12 -0700 (PDT)
At 3:58 PM -0400 5/10/08, Stuart Joseph wrote:
I liked the web page of the Mobile Hermitage which led me to
Resourcesforlife.com. I have spent too much time reading all of the
information on the links that you have sent me!<grin>

Stuart,

Thanks for the book suggestions. Never enough books, eh? LOL

Greg always is finding new links and books to add to ResourcesForLife.com. Check back once in a while to see the new gems. :-)

My favorite books are:

"Little House on a Small Planet" by Shay Salomon. She includes a section on cohousing and an entire chapter on building codes.

I also have "A Tiny Home To Call Your Own, Living Well in Just Right House" by Patricia Foreman and Andy Lee. Along with information on building green are chapters entitled "Conservation Subdivisions and Cottage Communities" and "Can Tiny Houses Help House the Unhoused and Inappropriately Housed?"

ResourcesForLife.com also has it's own eStore on Amazon where these books (and more) are available.
http://astore.amazon.com/resourcesforlife/

Select "Small House Books" To see more from people like Sarah Susanka and Dennis Fukai.
--
Cheers!
Marganne
http://cohousingsmallhomes.blogspot.com/

Small House Society
http://www.resourcesforlife.com/small-house-society
Examples of small homes
http://www.resourcesforlife.com/small-house-society/resources

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Truly affordable cohousing
Re: Truly affordable cohousing
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 10:40:03 -0700 (PDT)
At 7:33 PM -0400 5/10/08, Sharon Villines wrote:
I think there is a huge market for low cost cohousing. The definition of "affordable" is actually "average" home prices in a given area. It varies from one place and one program, but more people are below the "average" because they are not in the market on which this determination is made.

Add to that a huge developing market for people who choose to 'live simply' plus space demands for urban infill projects.
--
Cheers!
Marganne
http://cohousingsmallhomes.blogspot.com/

Small House Society
http://www.resourcesforlife.com/small-house-society
Examples of small homes
http://www.resourcesforlife.com/small-house-society/resources

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Truly affordable cohousing
Re: Truly affordable cohousing
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 10:49:52 -0700 (PDT)
At 7:33 PM -0400 5/10/08, Sharon Villines wrote:
Like most cohousing projects, the best way to get one is to start one.

I feel totally unable to spearhead something like this because of lack of time and energy due to my disability and lack of knowledge. I'm unable to absorb new information very well.

I know you are correct about just starting one. I was hoping to develop an outline of the major hoops required to jump through, then start adding estimated costs. Much of this will dictate what can or can't be built (mud hut vs. shipping crate vs. Katrina cottage vs modular vs mobile home, etc.).

--
Cheers!
Marganne
http://cohousingsmallhomes.blogspot.com/

Small House Society
http://www.resourcesforlife.com/small-house-society
Examples of small homes
http://www.resourcesforlife.com/small-house-society/resources

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Truly affordable cohousing
Re: Truly affordable cohousing
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 11:15:52 -0700 (PDT)
At 7:33 PM -0400 5/10/08, Sharon Villines wrote:
I don't remember where you live but it would make sense to begin exploring the zoning laws there to see what is possible. If trailer parks are allowed, for example, I would assume container homes would
be as well. And the small home kits, it seems would be welcome anywhere.

Perhaps California won't be the first location for a low-cost cohousing development due to the high price of land. Several projects exist here and are popping up nearby, but all will be just as expensive or above the average cost of a home here. (I think it's still $500,000 in the Sacramento area.) Even reclamation of an existing structure is difficult. Any space that still can be developed is at a premium.

One cohousing project recently was stopped by protests from neighbors who objected to the potential impact on the neighborhood's quality of life. Too much density = too much traffic for existing roads -- a lot of NIMBY.

There are a lot of trailer parks here and in surrounding counties. I don't have a clue how they are zoned, except that they are built by developers rather than individuals. I suppose it would be possible to 'take over' an existing trailer park unit by unit?

My only option for ownership in California is a used mobile home where the space rental is low. I do not qualify for a loan or mortgage, so I expect to have to put out $20,000 - $50,000 cash if I choose that avenue. For people who have no savings, even that price would be enormous.

About small home kits -- Many people in different states are unable to get loans for homes smaller than 1,000 square feet, based on discussions via the Small House Society mailing list. Banks don't see any resale value. Finding a bank willing to invest in a future that looks very different is a possibility.

I'm able and willing to move to another state if it means I can live in cohousing. In California, many people deliberately move out-of-state so they can afford to buy a house.

I'm not trying to be obstructive here. I'm just sharing what information I've gathered so far. If there's a way around some of my underlying assumptions, I'll be happy to go back, change them, and work from that point.
--
Cheers!
Marganne
http://cohousingsmallhomes.blogspot.com/

Small House Society
http://www.resourcesforlife.com/small-house-society
Examples of small homes
http://www.resourcesforlife.com/small-house-society/resources

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Affordable examples
Affordable examples
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 11:54:57 -0700 (PDT)
At 7:33 PM -0400 5/10/08, Sharon Villines wrote:
I recently saw something similar constructed on a lot in a medium size town in MD. Two artists built two small houses on one lot, one on the street and one behind that were live work studios. They had a bedroom upstairs, kitchen and bath downstairs, and the living room was their studio. Each was perfectly livable for one person. And they filled the whole lot with a small path on one side and small gardens all around -- small being 2-3 feet, enough to soften the appearance of the foundations.

I also saw a free standing bank vault that has been renovated into a house. It was VERY small. Maybe 15 ft square and not two stories tall. Two men lived there. They created a half-floor for the upstairs barely large enough to hold a bed, a closet, a wine rack, and a bathroom. Downstairs was a small living room/kitchen and a half bath. It was lovely but it was only a bit larger than the parking space they had beside it. But they were in the heart of the city with a parking space
and could walk to work.


An overwhelming amount of innovative small homes and buildings already exist. Bank vaults, boats, rail road cars. This is just a very small sample of things I've found.

A good example of infill in Toronto has gotten a lot of publicity in the past few years:
*U http://www.midtowntoronto.com/2007/10/15/torontos-smallest-house-for-sale/
Here's the real estate seller's page on this home
*U http://members.tripod.com/~list2sell/1smal.htm

Jeff Shafer of California builds homes on foundations and on wheels
*U http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/houses.htm

First Day Cottage of New Hampshire
*U http://www.firstdaycottage.com/Main.html

Go to Architectural House Plans and search for plans under 1,000 square feet
*U http://www.architecturalhouseplans.com/

And there always are the Katrina Cottages
*U http://www.katrinacottages.com/plans/types.html

Maybe I just found some answers for small house communities on Resources for Life
*U http://www.resourcesforlife.com/docs/item516

--
Cheers!
Marganne
*U http://cohousingsmallhomes.blogspot.com/

Small House Society
*U http://www.resourcesforlife.com/small-house-society
Examples of small homes
http://www.resourcesforlife.com/small-house-society/resources

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Modular/Prefab homes
Modular/Prefab homes
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 12:17:49 -0700 (PDT)
At 7:33 PM -0400 5/10/08, Sharon Villines wrote:
Prefab projects must be more dependable in terms of predictable construction times. You may have to shop for financing but all the
early cohousing communities had to shop for financing.

Prefab -- or Modular homes -- especially small ones, go up within a few days. I'm amazed at how much they've improved over the years -- very energy efficient and even green!

To find out more:
*U http://homebuying.about.com/od/modularhomes/Modular_and_Manufactured_Homes.htm


Cheers!
Marganne

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Truly affordable cohousing
Re: Truly affordable cohousing
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 12:28:16 -0700 (PDT)
At 7:33 PM -0400 5/10/08, Sharon Villines wrote:
Low cost cohousing has been a dream of many people for a long time. If a model could be created, there would be great demand. And I'm sure there
would be a lot of help on this list.

Can you share some ideas about how to find potential members for this type of project? I know there are others out there like me -- a few on this list in different geographical areas.

Personally, I haven't connected face-to-face with anyone over the past 4 years who wanted to get into cohousing, let alone low-cost projects. Perhaps list members and others in existing projects will know some people who would be interested?

--
Cheers!
Marganne
http://cohousingsmallhomes.blogspot.com/

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Truly affordable cohousing
Re: Truly affordable cohousing
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 12:31:06 -0700 (PDT)
At 7:33 PM -0400 5/10/08, Sharon Villines wrote:
Rob suggested a lot development model, but the problem with this is that most people don't have the upfront money such a project requires, or the ability to carry a mortgage until the house gets built. There are inevitable delays and people can't pay the cost of two housing situations at the same time.

Perhaps transitional housing could be provided on site? This might be very good if some members plan to help build themselves.

Cheers!
Marganne

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Truly affordable cohousing
Re: Truly affordable cohousing
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 08:32:51 -0700 (PDT)
Charles,

Thank you for bringing your project to our attention. I've briefly looked at your web site. I was wondering how long you have been 'in formation'. Also, are the list of points on you home page the 'official' adopted goals and mission for your project? Or is that still under development?

At 1:26 AM -0600 5/12/08, balaji [at] ouraynet.com wrote:
The Utah Valley Commons, a cohousing group in formation, subscribes to the
philosophy you describe.  You are welcome to join our discussion on Yahoo
or vist our website (www.utahvalleycommons.com).  We have many of the same
questions you do, and are actively seeking solutions.  Our plan is for a
community of no more than 35 households, surrounded by land sufficient for
organic gardening and/or CSA.  We intend to be within commuting distance
of Provo (south of Salt Lake City.)

Thanks for your input on the issue of affordability.

--
Cheers!
Marganne
http://cohousingsmallhomes.blogspot.com/

Small House Society
http://www.resourcesforlife.com/small-house-society

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Elevators and exclusions
Re: Elevators and exclusions
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 14:14:52 -0700 (PDT)
I know I'm relatively new to this block, but how about this:

Make some kind of elevator or lift a priority and keep the project affordable by reducing expenses elsewhere.

What are the priorities of the project? I don't think affordability and an elevator are mutually exclusive.

At 9:14 PM -0400 5/11/08, melanie griffin wrote:
If the common house comes within
the jurisdiction of the ADA or an even more restrictive local code, there
may NOT be a choice. It is necessary to work out the priorities for the
community, I agree, but if the authorities have decided accessibility is
more important than affordability, they can't be ignored.


--
Cheers!
Marganne
http://cohousingsmallhomes.blogspot.com/

Small House Society
http://www.resourcesforlife.com/small-house-society

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Truly affordable cohousing
Re: Truly affordable cohousing
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 15:01:48 -0700 (PDT)
Affordable housing has been explicitly banned in the US, anywhere and
everywhere that is close to city jobs and mass transportation.

Zoning and building codes do change, slowly sometimes. Variances exist.

One person's idea of 'commuting distance' differs from anothers. There are many ways to have income that don't involve larger cities and commuting.

Perhaps anticipation of mass transit extensions could make locating in an outlying area better for those who choose to commute daily. There always is carpooling.

I have seen some evidence of landowners willing to make adjustments if a project serves an underserved population or helps to maintain wetlands or other open space areas.

The amount of people who can't afford acceptable housing is growing in leaps and bounds. I suppose the United States eventually could be like a third-world country where people live in cardboard and tin shacks. I like to believe that our method of housing the masses will change to meet the need.

Where there is a need, the marketplace will shift to serve it. Our lives have changed drastically since the United States was established -- even within our own lifetime. People and the economy can be very adaptable if needs be.

People who choose to work in a city will need housing nearby that they can afford. If not, that city eventually won't have any worker bees. People may need to change their lifestyles, their jobs, their expectations.

I could be wrong. But then what?

At 12:15 PM -0400 5/12/08, Brian Bartholomew wrote:
Exactly.  The lack of affordable housing is *entirely* a consequence
of zoning and building codes.  The expense of construction technology
has nothing to do with it.

Proof: nobody can point to any lot within 10 miles (bike commute) of a
population of 150,000 or more (jobs), that allows "evolving
campground" incremental construction methods.  There are none.  Zero.

Affordable housing has been explicitly banned in the US, anywhere and
everywhere that is close to city jobs and mass transportation.

--
Cheers!
Marganne
http://cohousingsmallhomes.blogspot.com/

Small House Society
http://www.resourcesforlife.com/small-house-society

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Truly affordable cohousing
Re: Truly affordable cohousing
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 16:24:47 -0700 (PDT)
At 4:35 PM -0600 5/12/08, balaji [at] ouraynet.com wrote:
Our hope is to recruit
more members this year, and then purchase land and start development the
following.  That is ambitious, we know, but we are a society of optimists!

Nothing wrong with being an optimist! :-)

Your web site is very clear and well done. It will attract people who aren't as concerned about price as they are about your stated goals.

Since finances dictate my circumstances, a community that would attract me is one where affordability is a stated goal. People who have very little income need to know how strongly the community feels about sticking to a price a low income person can afford.

I'd guess the time when many projects lose members is when unexpected costs arise. Low income people don't have the flexibility to absorb additional expenses. When affordability is a priority, if there are unexpected expenses, the cost of the project must be reduced elsewhere to keep it viable.

--
Cheers!
Marganne
http://cohousingsmallhomes.blogspot.com/

Small House Society
http://www.resourcesforlife.com/small-house-society
Examples of small homes
http://www.resourcesforlife.com/small-house-society/resources

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Thanks for low cost discussion
Thanks for low cost discussion
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 10:32:01 -0700 (PDT)
At 2:51 PM -0400 5/13/08, Kristen Simmons wrote:
Conclusion:
Have been in the building profession a while, I amazed that anything ever gets built.

[snip]

One of the reasons that I didn't want to get involved in this discussion was because some posters seemed to be judging others on the list. Maybe that was not the intention of the posters. But it did make me want to stay away.


Kristen & Brian

Thank you for posting about your building and cohousing experiences. If low cost cohousing is possible, this is important information for this list (or for me) to hear.

I have very little experience in this area, so I ask a lot of questions. Shared experiences like yours are what I need to read on this list.

Other subscribers are looking for the same information. Perhaps your posts will encourage them to stay and participate in the discussion.

Cheers!
Marganne

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Terminology Suggestion
Re: Terminology Suggestion
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 13:58:28 -0700 (PDT)
At 8:17 AM -0700 5/13/08, John Faust wrote:
You can find information about New Urbanist design here *U <http://www.cnu.org/>and here *U <http://www.newurbannews.com/AboutNewUrbanism.html>. You will find that they are very compatible with cohousing view. Clearly the problem is to get funding for such programs. Maybe an earmark from your local, compassionate representative. :^)

Great links John! At the risk of involving 'government', are there any visible champions of cohousing of any type that are part of the government and have pushed locally (or nationally) for regs to better accommodate cohousing or for government 'encouragement' of ways to build more low cost housing?

Couldn't hurt to find influential people who feel passionate about the "not-so-big" house movement.

Lobby isn't a bad word on it's own. ;-)
--
Cheers!
Marganne
http://cohousingsmallhomes.blogspot.com/

Small House Society
http://www.resourcesforlife.com/small-house-society

Cohousing Association of the U.S.
http://www.cohousing.org/

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Low cost housing
Re: Low cost housing
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 13:10:18 -0700 (PDT)
At 12:56 PM -0700 5/18/08, John Faust wrote:
For the low-income cases, it would seem that an institution whose primary
focus is on cohousing, low income in particular, would also acquire the
expertise needed to locate (and even promote) and incorporate all of the
government programs at various levels that support low income housing.

Has anyone here ever spoken to people at HUD or Fannie Mae, etc. about cohousing? Is Habitat for Humanity all done by donation? Or have they set up a financial institution or work with one?

Cheers!
Marganne

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Low cost housing
Re: Low cost housing
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 13:11:47 -0700 (PDT)
At 3:05 PM -0400 5/18/08, Sharon Villines wrote:
Another option might be to negotiate with a national bank to create a "preferred lender" agreement. There is a lot of construction money and
mortgages involved in cohousing that a bank would benefit from.

Can people on a limited income (social security, SSDI) qualify for a mortgage?

Cheers!
Marganne

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Variations on low cost housing
Re: Variations on low cost housing
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 20:52:49 -0700 (PDT)
At 7:44 PM -0400 5/18/08, Sharon Villines wrote:
My favorite California story was of a family who bought land in the country, sold their house, and had a
moving truck put all their stuff under a big tree.

My friends and I built a three-story tree house with a sun deck back in the day. We all would get up there and no one could see us. Unfortunately, we didn't have sanitary facilities. :-(

Part of the lure of living small (under 1000 square feet) is incorporating the outside into part of your living space.

Cheers!
Marganne

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Low cost housing
Re: Low cost housing
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 21:21:50 -0700 (PDT)
At 7:54 PM -0400 5/18/08, Sharon Villines wrote:
buildings that are falling
apart or are just too strange for anyone else to want, are impossible
to sell.

Too strange? I currently rent a studio condo (apartment) that's about 460 square feet. When the real estate market is better, these units sell all the time, even though they are 30 years old.

Building small doesn't necessarily equate to shoddy or strange. Lenders have no problem writing mortgages when these tiny studios are bought and sold. A family of three lives in the studio next to me. This is one of the nicer condo developments that people aspire to live in.

I'm not being contrary about what you are saying, Sharon. I'm just very frustrated with all the supposedly 'good' reasons people use to keep people from building homes they really want to live in.

Cheers!
Marganne

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: low cost housing
Re: low cost housing
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 21:31:22 -0700 (PDT)
At 8:03 PM -0400 5/18/08, Kathy Buck wrote:
Elderspirit Cohousing in Abingdon Va has 16 units of low to moderate
income senior rental housing and 13 market rate units. Dene Peterson the burning soul behind this project used her expertise in the nonprofit world to put together a financing package using federal monies. Elderspirit is in the process of doing another community in Abingdon and
it too will include subsidized housing.  You can contact them at
_www.elderspirit.net._


This is a great idea for a growing population. I took a quick look at the web site but couldn't find anything about financing or ballpark prices. Also no definition of low to moderate income or subsidized housing. Does anyone here happen to know this information?

Are these 'affordable' or are they low cost?

I could write directly to them and ask. But I'm asking here on the list. Personally, I don't qualify for housing that's 55+.

Cheers!
Marganne

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Low cost housing
Re: Low cost housing
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 10:24:23 -0700 (PDT)
At 8:05 PM -0500 5/18/08, Dirk Herr-Hoyman wrote:
Habitat does run by local organizations, so check
with your local Habitat to see if they might be
interested in a partership with your Cohousing
project.

I don't have a Cohousing project for them to partner with.

There are a variety of different levels even to low cost housing qualifications. Even though I'm disabled on a fixed income, I don't qualify for many available assistance programs because I have more than $3,000 in assets.

There's a growing number of people like me who are caught between 'levels' of low income. If you have any assets, they must be 'spent down' before you can qualify.

I haven't checked specifically into Habitat to see if its requirements are the same as most I've looked at. It's possible the requirements there are different. Right now I've run out of energy to get details about more housing programs.

Cheers!
Marganne

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Low cost housing
Re: Low cost housing
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 10:29:35 -0700 (PDT)
At 7:44 AM -0400 5/19/08, Sharon Villines wrote:
By too strange, I meant things like shared bathrooms, no kitchen. Or
like one apartment I saw in Manhatten,

Yes, it would be difficult to find someone else who would agree to pay to live under the same circumstances or to get a loan to pay for it. There are many options for low cost housing that aren't 'strange' and would hold their resale value. For instance, building a 'granny house' on your property often enhances the value of the lot.

Cheers,
Marganne

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Low cost housing
Re: Low cost housing
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 10:36:48 -0700 (PDT)
At 7:44 AM -0400 5/19/08, Sharon Villines wrote:
I also have trees outside the windows on the side opposite the door. One person said, "Oh, you live in a tree house!"

I live in a similar situation. I look out the sliding glass doors of my second floor studio to plants on the small deck and the tops of redwood and pine trees. It's a great illusion.

Last month I severely twisted my ankle. I was especially happy to have the view because I wasn't able to leave my 'tree house' due to a switchback of difficult stairs.

There are many, many ways of making small homes that are very liveable in any climate. I learned so much of that from the Small House Society mailing list and the resources there that led me to other options.

Cheers!
Marganne

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: How much living space to you need?
How much living space to you need?
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 10:50:43 -0700 (PDT)
At 7:44 AM -0400 5/19/08, Sharon Villines wrote:
In Manhattan, small apartments are also possible because people live in public more. They tend to meet for dinner instead of entertaining in because they have no cars and it is a pain to get uptown or downtown. They meet in between instead. Go out for the paper and
breakfast in the morning. Hang out in Starbucks with a laptop or a
book. People even meet clients in hotel lobbies -- the ones with the
comfortable furniture and a bar. A fern place.

This is true in many cultures (other than the United States). I recall reading a report about how many square feet (on average) a person needs to 'live'. Can't remember exact numbers, but people in the U.S. required more square feet than any other culture. People in Japan do very well in less than 200 square feet because they 'live' outside as you describe above. There is a condo project in Seattle that primarily houses moderate to high-income working class Asians. The condos are less than 200 square feet.

I find 460 square feet a bit too tight for myself and my two cats. I don't think I could handle living here very long if my only view was the brick building next door.

Cheers!
Marganne

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Urban vs Rural low cost living
Urban vs Rural low cost living
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 11:04:50 -0700 (PDT)
At 7:44 AM -0400 5/19/08, Sharon Villines wrote:
So cities can be better areas for low cost housing than out in the country or the suburbs. Because people can walk to work, it also makes
them very convenient.

I was raised as a city girl in L.A. I've lived all but 7 years of my life in big cities (not by choice). I would give almost anything to return to semi-rural living. I'm very drawn to large, open vistas without the low roar of traffic, the whine of sirens, and watching helicopters every other night flying overhead with search lights.

There are many services and other stimulating things offered in larger cities. I found smaller towns provide more sense of community which was very attractive to me. As I read somewhere, it doesn't bother me that I have to drive more than 2 miles to find a Starbucks! (LOL)

In this world of people finding many ways to work via telecommuting, it removes some of the need to be near a hub of employment.

Cheers!
Marganne

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Urban vs Rural low cost living
Re: Urban vs Rural low cost living
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 11:58:44 -0700 (PDT)
At 12:09 PM -0600 5/19/08, Matthew Whiting wrote:
 if you live a country life, meaning agricultural work,

Hold on! I lived in a small town in a rural area for 6 years. I can't think of anyone there who depended on agricultural work for a living. (Except the family on the dairy farm and the guys who owned a wholesale nursery or Christmas tree farm.) I had a full-time job based on my BA degree -- journalism.

Definitions are a drag, especially when not clarified. So rural = agricultural?

Cheers!
Marganne


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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Variations on low cost housing
Re: Variations on low cost housing
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 12:07:00 -0700 (PDT)
At 8:07 AM -0400 5/19/08, Ann Zabaldo wrote:
I don't think "building small" is the issue.  Is it not more an issue
or issues of other expectations?   "Small" plus a lot of land plus all
high tech amenities plus being in a really good, high-end neighborhood
if for no other reason than the good schools and  libraries high-end
neighborhoods have?

I'd agree a majority of people entering cohousing have good reasons to want to live in or near an urban area. Not everyone who wants a sense of community has children's education or city-tied jobs to consider.

Perhaps we need to agree on clearer definitions for words like urban, suburban and rural. Or perhaps I'm the one that needs the clarification.

I'm part of a growing portion of the population who have already raised families, have retired, or have become disabled because science has found many ways to prolong life. Aren't Baby Boomers the quickest growing portion of the population now?

If 'building small' isn't the issue, I'd like know more about the other issues. Am I missing something important that makes creation of low cost housing in suburban, rural or fringe areas only for people who can afford $300,000+? (I am a California native, so I'm able to miss a lot of things!) ;-)

I have a gut resistance to the idea that low cost equals shared walls and high density. I also realize my level of knowledge about construction and building pales in comparison to many people on this list. Which is why I'm here asking more questions. :-)

Shared walls to save money seems logical. So why can't shared-wall homes be made for less than $100,000 per? If you spend 20-40K for a kit house or modular home to be placed on a 50K lot that already has water and sewer, what are the extra costs that take it to beyond affordable?

(I'm really not trying to pick a fight here... REALLY. I'm trying to find a way for people like myself to gain the advantages of living in community...or understand the reason why we can't.)

Cheers!
Marganne
(Running away and ducking down)

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Transition Town Movement
Transition Town Movement
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 15:25:50 -0700 (PDT)
At 2:38 AM -0600 5/16/08, balaji [at] ouraynet.com wrote:
But
others, many others, have been shut out, and the rest of us find it
unbelievably difficult to secure financing and approval.  I hope you are
right and new systems can be created.  The TRANSITION TOWN movement,
started in England and now spreading worldwide, gives me hope.

I'm looking over the Transition Town Wiki and web site. It's a very interesting concept. Does it include what could be done to house people who can't afford mortgages?

Cheers!
Marganne

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Variations on low cost housing
Re: Variations on low cost housing
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 10:14:54 -0700 (PDT)
In cohousing, when a unit sells or is rented, doesn't the community have some say about who moves in?

At 2:16 PM -0600 5/19/08, Tim Mensch wrote:
Wishful thinking aside, many many people care what the House Next Door
looks like, and that therefore affects property values. Even if you
absolutely promise to keep up the yard and paint just fine, what if
something causes you to need to move after a couple years?  It's
reasonable to assume that the next owner might be buying there because,
well, they don't have much money--and can't afford niceties like new
paint. Also, what if it's snatched up by an investor to rent out?
Renters statistically don't keep as good care of a yard and house as
owners, and an inexpensive house in a nice area would be attractive to
an investor.

--
Cheers!
Marganne
http://cohousingsmallhomes.blogspot.com/

Small House Society
http://www.resourcesforlife.com/small-house-society

Cohousing Association of the U.S.
http://www.cohousing.org/

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Variations on low cost housing
Re: Variations on low cost housing
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 10:57:09 -0700 (PDT)
Rod,

So glad to hear about yet another way to 'crack the nut'. You ended up in 2003 with a mix of low cost homes located next to not-so-low-cost homes? What's happened since 2003 with comparative values to the surrounding community? Are prices for the more expensive houses within the project being adversely affected by being mixed with lower-cost housing? Or is it not that simple.

Cheers!
Marganne

At 5:36 PM -0400 5/19/08, Rod Lambert wrote:
A caveat with the hybrid approach is, that in allowing more freedom of
choice, the prospective owner must exercise serious discipline if the
budget is king. They must "follow the script" to meet budget and not be
tempted to emulate what their neighbor is doing to their house ("feature
creep"). It also requires frequent updates on cost estimates so that the
owner quickly sees the results of making changes. Several people here
did follow the script and got very low cost, well-built homes. ($70/sf
in 2003) But several people also paid significantly more then they
originally expected mostly because of the reasons mentioned above.
(However almost everyone got good value for what they paid.)


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Cohousing-L Mailing List: finding community
finding community
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 12:00:00 -0700 (PDT)
At 9:38 PM -0400 5/19/08, Jane O'Brien wrote:
The houses are very close to one another (about 10 feet between them) so you wave to your neighbor in your facing kitchen windows when both of you are making supper. But there are no shared walls, so it's easier to shut out neighbor noise; everyone has a small yard and parking in front of their house; everyone tends to look out for the children and animals of those who live here.

It's a great solution for me. Might not have worked well earlier in my life, and I know the circumstances have to conspire for people to be able to move long distance.

I'm so glad to hear stories like yours. It is something I've considered, particularly since housing in Ohio is very inexpensive. 10 points for you and everyone else like you who takes the risk to believe whatever happens things will be for the best.

I grew up in a 5-house cul-de-sac in the San Fernando Valley, just north of L.A., so we experienced more-than-normal community (50 years ago).

I'm not in a place health-wise where I could pick up and move somewhere without knowing there would be at least a few friendly faces where I landed. It's another reason I'm interested in cohousing. I can care for myself, but I do much better when I'm out and about interacting with others and making a contribution.

I wish there were some way to create a data base of people who would like to relocate -- whether it be across town or cross country, rental or purchase -- but also could count on finding people nearby who welcome living in community with their neighbors.

Hmmm... sounds like a new social network for living with others who want to live in community. Maybe several people in a situation similar to me -- can live almost anywhere -- could gather in one geographical area likely to have low cost rentals grouped in the same building or block or surrounding a community center? (Maybe I'll spend more time on MySpace or Facebook....)

Do some of the existing communities have pages in social networks?

Cheers!
Marganne

P.S. I currently live in the middle of an 800+ condo homeowner's association (I rent). Although there are exceptions, most people won't give their next door neighbor their name and emergency contact number for Neighborhood Watch -- they don't want anyone to know their business!

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Zillions of cohousing communities
Zillions of cohousing communities
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 12:13:52 -0700 (PDT)
At 10:21 PM -0400 5/19/08, Ann Zabaldo wrote:
I think you're pointing to something really important that my former
housemate, Tina, used to interject and still does interject when I'm
wound up in my vision of creating cohousing communities by the
zillions.  She says:  if you put just 25% of the effort into the
community around you that you live in NOW that  you are using to
create a whole new community you might be surprised at the outcome.

I must be bitten by the same bug.

I don't 'see dead people'.

I see 'cohousing communities'. LOL

Last night I read a city planning report describing what this study group would like to see develop to increase the sense of community and provide a mix of low cost and middle class housing. They want to stay away from low cost 'projects' to try and discourage crime and decay, but need to create low cost housing for seniors and others in combination with transit and commercial buildings for shopping and services.

Has a cohousing project ever been built in a somewhat blighted area? Has it had any effect on the surrounding neighborhood? Would a 'zillion' communities of various sizes and values judiciously grouped in one area be another way to create what some city planning groups say they want to do?

Is cohousing the answer to ALL the mysteries of life??? [wink, grin]

Cheers!
Marganne

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Variations on low cost housing
Re: Variations on low cost housing
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 13:50:33 -0700 (PDT)
At 9:57 AM -0600 5/22/08, Tim Mensch wrote:
There's also the logistical challenge of getting a community to agree to
put up the money to buy the place, which to me seems very unlikely to
happen unless the buyer is truly and obviously a bad fit--obvious enough
to achieve consensus among the folks that will end up having to pay to
buy the house.

If there's a rental or two or more in a typical (whatever that is) cohousing project, are they usually owned by the community or are they extra units a member had built in anticipation of renting? Or something else. If it is the latter, isn't this another example of getting a renter who isn't necessarily tied to the mission and goals of the community?

If owned by the community, how to fair housing laws affect the selection of someone to rent a unit? For that matter, what if a member of the community decides to move out and turn her/his unit into a rental?

Cheers!
Marganne

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: New low cost housing group formed
New low cost housing group formed
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 16:26:20 -0700 (PDT)
Join the Low Cost Community Housing group at Google.

Current web address:
*U http://groups.google.com/group/low-cost-community-housing

Current email address:
low-cost-community-housing [at] googlegroups.com

A place for people who are interested in creating housing communities that don't break your bank! Spawned from mailing lists for cohousing and the Small House Society.

Let's create a model for low cost cohousing or community housing. We'll develop and track ideas and add information as it is developed in the discussion. This also is a place to connect with others interested in creating and living in low cost community housing.

Fill out a membership request to join. Access currently is restricted to invited members.

Cheers!
Marganne

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: New group on low cost community
New group on low cost community
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 19:54:13 -0700 (PDT)
I've opened membership up to anyone who wants to join. A few people didn't want to create a Google account so I've subscribed them directly. Hopefully this is a good workaround.

Cheers!
Marganne

Join the Low Cost Community Housing group at Google.

Current web address:
http://groups.google.com/group/low-cost-community-housing

Current email address:
low-cost-community-housing [at] googlegroups.com

A place for people who are interested in creating housing communities that don't break your bank! Spawned from mailing lists for cohousing and the Small House Society.

Let's create a model for low cost cohousing or community housing. We'll develop and track ideas and add information as it is developed in the discussion. This also is a place to connect with others interested in creating and living in low cost community housing.

I've opened access to anyone.

Cheers!
Marganne
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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Share rental in Oregon, Washington?
Share rental in Oregon, Washington?
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 00:15:24 -0700 (PDT)
Hello everyone!

There's two rental units available for rent -- 3 bed/2 baths -- one each in Oregon and Washington state. They are listed in the Marketplace section of Cohousing.org. Does anyone out there want to talk about the potential of sharing one of these large condos, both located in beautiful surroundings?

In Washington state there's Bellingham Cohousing located north of Seattle on the coast. You'll find the community's web site address and details here:
*U http://www.cohousing.org/node/761

In Oregon there's a large condo available for rent at Trillium Hollow, just west of Portland, OR. Find the community's web site address and details here:
*U http://www.cohousing.org/node/1198

I'm single, no kids or significant other, two indoor-only cats, steady but low income, not currently living in a community.

I'm posting this to both the main Coho mailing list and to the new Low Cost Community Housing (LCCH) mailing list. I've visited Trillium. It's in a beautiful area very close to Portland but in a rural setting. I've been to the city of Bellingham and would like to relocate there from California. Haven't toured the cohousing community there.

Send me an email so we can talk it over and consider the possibility. I know this is a big shot in the dark. If something is meant to be, it will work out.

--
Cheers!
Marganne
http://cohousingsmallhomes.blogspot.com/

Low Cost Community Housing (LCCH)
http://groups.google.com/group/low-cost-community-housing
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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Newspaper supports building smaller homes
Newspaper supports building smaller homes
From: Marganne (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:07:32 -0700 (PDT)
Here's a little follow-up to the recent discussion about building cohousing projects with lower costs.

*U http://www.idahostatesman.com/126/story/415966.html

The Idaho Statesman published an editorial Sunday supporting a developer's request to include smaller-sized homes in a new Kuna, ID subdivision. The developer's request to build homes less than the 1,400-square-feet required minimum size was turned down last week.

Maybe this is a developer who could be approached to brainstorm about building Low Cost Community Housing?

Several customers recently told the developer they wanted homes in his subdivision, but didn't need 1,400 square feet. The developer focused on 1,250 square feet which 'wouldn't detract from the values of nearby, larger homes'. "One hundred and fifty square feet less than somebody else isn't going to ruin a subdivision."

The planning commissioner said, "The city should protect a neighborhood's integrity. Very few investments in our lifetime are more important than our house."

When I signed the development agreement (minimum 1,400 sq ft), we were at $2-a-gallon gas, the developer said. Green, energy-efficient homes that are what you can truly afford - that's the marketplace right now.

The newspaper urged the planning department to work with developers and builders to educate residents that with good design, construction and maintenance, even a small house can look great and uphold neighborhood property values.
--
Cheers!
Marganne
http://cohousingsmallhomes.blogspot.com/

Join the Low Cost Community Housing (LCCH) mailing list
http://groups.google.com/group/low-cost-community-housing
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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: affordable, rental cohousing! (No. Calif.)
Re: affordable, rental cohousing! (No. Calif.)
From: Marganne Meyer (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:30:53 -0700 (PDT)
At 1:03 PM -0700 7/28/08, Eris Weaver wrote:
The application period for units in Petaluma Avenue Homes has been extended
to August 30. Please pass this information on to anyone you know who may be
interested in an affordable, all-rental cohousing community!

The 45-unit project was designed by McCamant & Durrett and is in Sebastopol,
California, a pleasant and progressive community in Sonoma County. It is

Sorry I've been late to hear about this effort to create low cost community housing with a rental model. I checked out the above project website plus associated information presented in the second part of the three-part article published last year in the cohousing magazine.

*U http://www.cohousing.org/cm/article/affordable_2

Many of the difficulties of creating low cost cohousing have been discussed both here and on the Low Cost Community Housing (LCCH) mailing list. Finding developers for low cost projects was identified as a potential problem. The article author suggests most experienced cohousing developers already participate in creating low cost cohousing. This is a little confusing to me.

The Petaluma/Sepastapol project was created in connection with a company called Affordable Housing Associates (AHA) www.ahainc.org and is a government-subsidized project. The article author said the challenge is in finding and qualifying people for residency.

Does more than this one rental-based, low income project exist? If so, could someone please let me know where I can find information about these projects? I'd like to find out how those communities have worked out similar problems.

In prior discussions, it was suggested that combining larger and smaller units in one project would have a negative effect on the value of the larger homes. Have projects already been built that successfully combine large and small units?

In projects where a portion of the units are designated as 'low income' and qualify for government subsidy, how has integration of the occupants into the overall community worked out? Are the units in these communities the same size as all the other units, or were they purposely built smaller for economic reasons?

Another problem identified in the affordable cohousing article (and one we have discussed) is hoping to attract renters who will embrace the 'intrinsic benefits of cohousing'. A common belief is that lower-cost or smaller units, especially rentals, might not be maintained at the same level as larger, owner/resident units. The Sebastapol project specifically talks about how it will try to deal with creating community among residents who aren't familiar with the cohousing model.

Have other projects that include subsidized units found it difficult to find qualifying members? If the units are occupied, has there been any problems with encouraging those residents to join in community activities and maintain the residence?

Are there any projects already existing and occupied based on this all-rental concept? I'd like to check them out.

I guess I'm questioning the conclusions drawn about low cost cohousing after lengthy discussions on this list and on the LCCH list.

--
Cheers!
Marganne
The cohousing, small house movement
http://cohousingsmallhomes.blogspot.com/

Low Cost Community Housing
http://groups.google.com/group/low-cost-community-housing

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Any Small Places for Rent
Re: Any Small Places for Rent
From: Marganne Meyer (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:16:58 -0700 (PDT)
At 11:09 AM -0400 8/11/08, 713Training wrote:
I have never lived in cohousing so I would like to rent
a small space and give it a try before purchasing a
home. Does anyone know of any small places (500-600
square feet) - a 1-bedroom log cabin would be wonderful
for a single lady.

Most of the cohousing communities I have found are huge
homes that cost $300,000 or more. Are there any
communities out there with rustic log cabins where
people live more simplistic? A $300,000 home to me would
be like living like the "Rich and Famous."

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Dear Victoria,

I, too, think your idea of renting is a good one. I've scanned the Cohousing.org marketplace off and on looking for trends of prices and availability. I did find one studio for rent in an Oregon I might have joined. Unfortunately, no pets were allowed -- like indoor cats. Trying to keep the rental allergy-free.

There have been many discussions on this list about how people who either can't afford $300,000 or choose to live in smaller dwellings so their time and money can be 'spent' elsewhere. I'd encourage you to do a keyword search of the archives, especially around April, May and June of this year.

As a result of the conversation held at that time, an offshoot mailing list has formed. I invited people from this list and the Small House Society mailing list to come together and see if a 'marriage' could be arranged where cohousing could include homes less than 1,000 square feet for less than $50,000.

There was quite a lively discussion, both here and on the Low Cost Community Housing (LCCH) list. One of the conclusions discovered here was that people consider their house as an investment. Having a smaller house (perhaps a Katrina Cottage) near their larger home might reduce the value of their investment.

There are many, many options for small houses that are extremely comfortable and liveable. It's sometimes difficult to convince 'large' home dwellers that small homes are anything but rental property for the low income. I've posted lists of links to examples of the many manufacturers of these homes to this list. Check my signature for more links.

Although I feel small and large homes can be combined in one project, I haven't found a community that had done this successfully. A discussion about building an all-small-house project was held. Zoning restrictions appeared to be the biggest obstacle. For example, some cities prohibit building houses less than 1,200 square feet!

There is an all-rental cohousing project being formed in Sebastopol, CA called Petaluma Avenue Homes. It is aimed at the low-income population. For more information, write to Caitlin at CFischer [at] ahainc.org. Perhaps someone here will have the web site link for this project.

Good luck and hope we can share more ideas.
--
Cheers!
Marganne

The cohousing, small house movement
http://cohousingsmallhomes.blogspot.com/

Low Cost Community Housing
http://groups.google.com/group/low-cost-community-housing

The Small House Society
*U http://www.resourcesforlife.com/groups/smallhousesociety/resources.htm

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Any Small Places for Rent
Re: Any Small Places for Rent
From: Marganne Meyer (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:29:15 -0700 (PDT)
At 8:44 AM -0700 8/12/08, Raines Cohen wrote:

Victoria wrote:
 > A $300,000 home to me would
 be like living like the "Rich and Famous."

Come on out here, where $300,000 might get you 500-600 square feet, if you're lucky. ;-)

The number of people designing and building small homes grows every day, Raines. Rather than list them all myself, I'll refer you to a site that has a very good list of links to quality homes specifically designed small. Many of these homes are less than $50,000.

More and more people are unable to afford a $300,000+ home (including those who tried and had to walk away in the Mortgage Crisis) or choose to live simply in less space. I thought you subscribed to the Low Cost Community Housing list, Raines. ;-)

List of links:
*U http://www.resourcesforlife.com/docs/item522
--
Cheers!
Marganne

The cohousing, small house movement
http://cohousingsmallhomes.blogspot.com/

Low Cost Community Housing
http://groups.google.com/group/low-cost-community-housing

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Mixed-income Cohousing
Mixed-income Cohousing
From: Marganne Meyer (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 03:33:08 -0700 (PDT)
At 10:49 AM -0700 8/17/08, Harriet Lewis wrote:
Small Apartments: At Santa Rosa Creek Commons (27 units) all units are less than 750 square feet except the two family 3 bd.2b units/
upstairs/downstairs at
1100 sq. feet. 3 Studios and 10 one bedroom units are 400-560 square feet. We have many people on the wait list who are willing to purchase a small unit. Keeps us affordable and I don't hear many complaints from the residents.

Then we get back to the subject of what is 'affordable'? What are the ballpark prices charged for these 750-foot-square units? What about the studio unit?

Cheers!
Marganne

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: affordable, rental cohousing! (No. Calif.)
Re: affordable, rental cohousing! (No. Calif.)
From: Marganne Meyer (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 03:39:21 -0700 (PDT)
At 12:41 AM -0400 8/17/08, David Heimann wrote:
 > Can any of you envision your own community including several
 800-square-foot homes?

I can definitely do so! Out of 30 units, we have three studios at 550 square feet and three one-bedrooms at 700 square feet. Of the remaining 24, eleven are around 850 square feet only. We're doing fine with the smaller homes!

That's GREAT David. Let's see if they fit the second criteria of Low Cost Community Housing. What's the ballpark cost of your 550 square foot unit?

Check out a post I made here within the last few days to see what I consider to be affordable, small, sustainable homes.

Cheers!
Marganne

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Cohousing-L Mailing List: Re: Mixed-income Cohousing
Re: Mixed-income Cohousing
From: Marganne Meyer (margannemacnexus.org)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 03:43:39 -0700 (PDT)
At 7:10 PM -0500 8/16/08, Joelyn Malone wrote:
See my earlier post on the small (450 sq ft or less) units available at Monterey Cohousing. By use of the Co-op organizational structure and financing, we were able to make it possible for our several low-income households (and one that just wanted the simplicity) to buy into Monterey without outside subsidies and without those households feeling that others had to pay more than their fair share in order to make it work for everybody

I'm very interested in hearing more about your co-op as I'm in Sacramento where the same rules probably apply.

What is the market price of your small units? Ballpark? Is it similar to the ones I've posted recently to this list (well under $50,000)? If so, how would the people where you live feel if one of these small, low-cost cottages was proposed for your co-op? (I'm making a wild assumption that none of your units in Monterey sell for anywhere less than $200,000+, even for a 450 square foot unit. I'd be happy to be proved wrong on this.) :-)

Cheers!
Marganne

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This file was an experiment to develop methods for creating such compilations of such files. Note that the file is basically a bunch concatenated html files that HAVE NOT been edited to remove redundant headers like html, head, body etc. FIrefox seems to display the file as desired anyway. 2013 I've been validating files and suspect this one will fail miserably. Browsers and Firefox display miserable html surprizingly well. Fred Olson, cohousing-L list manager email: fholson [at] cohousing.org